Hey, everyone, welcome back to another episode, I’m excited for today’s episode, because I think it’s going to be something that’s relevant to most people. And we’re going to be talking about how to repair the sexual relationship after there’s been damaged by addiction. Now, I know there are so many different layers and challenges that couples face whether the wife gets triggered during intimacy, or before intimacy, or just the idea of intimacy is triggering, or if there’s a lack of safety, or if there’s pressure to be intimate before they’re ready, or if the husband doesn’t feel desired, or if he feels rejected, or if there’s insecurities and either both partners, or one person individually, there’s just so many things that couples struggle with in this area. Now, the best way that I can support somebody is through coaching. And I love doing coaching. And this is why. So I have my own, I have clients that I work with, whether it’s couples or individuals. And myself, I love being a client of a coach. Because if I can learn a skill or a tool in a few weeks, instead of a few years, then it’s much, much more beneficial to me to learn that skill in a shorter amount of time. So I can apply that tool instead of me having to figure it out on my own. So that’s one of the best ways that I learned. That’s one of the best ways that I can help somebody else learn. And so today, I’m excited to be able to do this episode, because I actually have a recording of a session that I did, where you can watch and listen to how I helped this couple overcome some challenges that they’re having with regard to intimacy. Because in her situation, their situation, she gets triggered, she shuts down, he disconnects from her, and he goes off and does his own individual thing. She’s left feeling alone, they don’t know how to come back together. And so it was such a cool experience for me to be able to work with them. And of course, I got their permission to do this recording, and show you how to navigate through some very difficult things with regard to intimacy. And so I hope that as you listen to this coaching session, this is another alternative way that I can offer some help. So you can listen in on how I would approach this. So you can take what applies and apply it to your own situation. So you can see progress in your intimate relationship as well. Because sometimes people aren’t sure. Well, what if we don’t feel safe? Or how do we create safety? How will I know? I’m ready? How do I process through triggers? There are lots of pieces to this. And so in this episode cover a lot of that, so you can apply it into your own relationship. Now, the first question, I just want to lead right into the episode here. And this is the very first question that I asked them. And then the follow up of how do I work with this is what you’re gonna hear after that, I hope that you guys enjoy this and you find a lot of value from this. Like, you’ve never had couples therapy.
Like this is gonna be
weird. Was there any thought to do couples were starting out?
I think that’s just because of what we were told.
And I do remember, like, She’s like, Okay, you got to build up your tree, he builds his tree. And then once you guys are strong enough, then you can kind of connect, but I never knew like, you know, like, how does that? How does that connecting happened? When is this supposed to happen? So yeah, it seemed very much like he does his stuff, I do my stuff. We kind of really struggled for a while of just like, what do we what do we do? How does this come together?
It’s so crazy to me that people will go months or years without working together on their relationship. I think it’s based on an old school model of recovery. And I think it actually works slower than if you were to work with a couple along the way. And they say that the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety, it’s connection. And who better to learn how to connect with than your spouse or your partner. And there’s a very particular way of working with a couple to help them learn how to use the relationship as a resource for connection and healing. And so if you know what you’re looking for, and you know how to guide the couple to get there, then everything changes. And that’s exactly what I’m going to show you here in this session. I wondered if you guys have thought if you hadn’t that’s okay. But if you thought about it at all, if you’d noticed, like the under emotional undercurrents. And then how it shows up and like both of you guys kind of just like, avoid or you know, he both I forgot the word that you used for treating Yeah, was there? Yeah. So did you guys do you notice that at all? Yeah.
It’s been really cool. Having that information and knowing like what’s going on, like, you know what I mean? Like, I could tell what I was feeling but putting it in the cycle? Yeah, it’s like, Whoa, here I am. I’m going, you know, like, it was really cool. So just a
bit of background for you. Every couple has a negative cycle or pattern that they get into this negative cycle is the thing that disconnects a couple from each other. And so in a previous session, we mapped out what theirs is and how it impacts them. So for them on the surface, when there’s a feeling of disconnection between them, he pulls away and he goes and does his recovery work, which isn’t a bad thing. But in the context of the relationship, she experiences that as him turning away from her, which then triggers her fears and insecurities. Because when he pulls away, she loses that connection from him. And even though he’s doing something good, like recovery work, she still gets afraid, and feels inadequate. And then she shuts down and pulls away as well, which he picks up on. And that triggers his feeling of being a failure. And around it goes. And this same cycle plays out in their intimate relationship as well.
We had an instance like right after. And it kind of covers both. And we’re both things that what we want to cover intimacy, and the cycle. So we went to go be intimate. And from so like, we started mean, intimate. And before we know it, like I just felt like, she just wasn’t feeling like she just wasn’t feeling it. But yet, we were still trying. I was like, she’s not feeling it, like. So I just stop. I was like, and just feeling like you’re not feeling it. So let’s just stop.
And you had felt all the hurt. And so afterwards, we talked about it. And I was like, Whoa, I like the feelings of inadequacy, inadequacy was sending me down into Well, look, now I can’t even do this kind of thing. And it was it was good. We both opened up, but I felt like it was okay, this is how I’m feeling. And then I’d say something, but then it hurt. He’s like, I know, this is not what you mean to say. But this is how I’m feeling about it. And so then he explained that, and then whatever he would say, would then send me. I feel like yeah, a couple times, we were both like, I know, you don’t mean to say this, which is good that we’re realizing like, you’re saying it, I know you’re not really meaning it, but this is how I’m feeling. But then it would make the other person. So we’re just like, it was like a good,
I don’t know, half hour
conversation. And we were both trying to like, okay, we’re aware of this cycle. We know kind of what’s going on. But we’ve
been said like, Okay, so this is what, this is what we’re doing, this is what you’re feeling. And then
we just, yeah, we were just like, Okay, well then, here’s where we’re stuck. Like we’re sharing, like, I’m being open, and I’m telling him things I’m feeling but it’s just hurting him. So then he’s telling me that he’s hurt by what I’m saying. Yeah. So they were like, Okay, this is where how do we get out? And we realized, we just time like, that’s all that we you know, getting out of this has just been like, okay,
that’s all you’ve had. Right? Right.
All right. Let’s just go to bed.
Yeah. Or like the day or a part tour? Yeah. And we don’t like nothing. We don’t really have a tool to solve it. We just kind of wait. And it
till it stops feeling so bad. Right? And then you
and then yeah, sleep graph the next day, it’s
Yeah, we realized we were like, Whoa, we are
so great, awesome insight. They recognize their cycle, which is fantastic. And now I want to get a better sense of what they were sharing with each other when they got stuck, where specifically did they get stuck. And then I want to help them unwind this in session with me. So when they go home, they’ll know how to do it if it happens again. And the way I want to do that is to help them each get in touch with what they feel like underneath the surface when something gets triggered. So I start with him and I pass the cue by again, when it feels like she’s not interested or into it. What does he feel helped me understand for you when it feels like she isn’t. Intuit is not interested. A little bit more like what’s what’s happening for you underneath the surface?
I get the big emotions. She
like you could tell she’s like, she’s not there fully. What’s Yeah, what’s that like for you? What’s happening?
So I think initially, it’s that feeling of disappointment. And, and and then i think it’s it’s the feeling of Well, is there something that I’m doing wrong as well?
disappear, disappointment, wondering if you’ve done something if you’re doing something wrong.
So I mean, on the surface, I just want to go if we’re not if we’re not going to be intimate, then I just want to go do my nightly routine. So I want to read my scriptures say my prayers right in my journal. Just get away from the whole situation. And
so So when that comes up, right, this sense of I’m doing, I’m doing something wrong, this is disappointing. Then there’s this like turning away, as you experience like you share, like there’s, it’s, you see him going in a different direction he’ll be then when you see him going into a turning away what’s happening for you emotionally?
There’s the frustration that Wait, we’re supposed to keep working on this, like, I don’t want this. And this way, I don’t feel connected at all, I feel worse. I don’t want it to end this way and then hurt have I hurt him again, and then feeling like I’m not good enough. Like, here we go again, with me not being able to do what I would like to do to connect yes to Him.
And so when you start to feel this pain of I’m not enough, my body’s not responding. I’ve heard him because my body’s not responding. And just the frustration of not feeling connected generally, in that moment, like leaving it undone, helped me with what? So in this pattern that is that when you will kind of retreat as well. Yes.
That’s when it usually it’s he you know, if he wants to retreat, I oftentimes will say, Okay, well, I don’t know what to do, either. So I retreat. I’m trying harder to be more open with Kay, this is how I’m feeling. Let’s try and work on this. But it’s very much a I don’t know what to do, I’m hurting. And I feel like I’m responsible for hurting him. which adds more pressure to feel like, okay, just get my body to work, or get my body to perform the way I want it to. But yeah, I at that point,
I just, I can’t
it’s not, right. And so then, as a result, again, in this cycle, you’ll retreat, you’ll say, Fine, go ahead. And then there’s distance between you guys. And then when you see her, when you feel distance between you two, you see her retreating? Do you have a sense of what’s happening for you?
Um, depends. If I’m doing my own thing, taking care of my own personal care, and try and not think about it and think I need to focus on this for now. And then, once that done, then it’s like, Okay, I’m ready. Share, I’m ready to talk now. Yeah, I’m filling in a better place. If I don’t go to that personal care, then I’ll just kind of sit and just be like, Well, I can tell you’re not feeling good about the situation, like you want to share. And, you know, she’s reluctant to share, I’m just like, it’s never going to get better. So I felt hopeless. That feeling of, you know, I inadequacy, I’m not good enough to, for her to share her feelings and to do anything about it.
Which, of course, is painful, alright, to feel like, I’m not good enough for her to be able to even share with me, this is not going to get resolved. And then you’re going to retreat more.
They’re definitely not just like, I’m ready to go. But
I was done.
So a part of asleep, sleep it off, right? I feel better in the morning. A part of what I think is so helpful for couples to do is, is really try to access what’s happening underneath the surface, because that’s the stuff that’s usually left unshared. And as a result, we respond on the surface with something that usually furthers the cycle, kind of what you’re describing, right? When you’re hurting, you retreat. When she’s hurting, she retreats, and then you’re both feeling even more distant, which feels worse. And then it’s like, I don’t know what else to do. So I’m just gonna go to sleep. And then tomorrow, you wake up, and it’s not necessarily resolved, but maybe you feel a little bit differently. It’s not as intense. And then you can pick back up with, you know, whatever’s going on. All right, sounds
about right.
hit it on the head.
And so if we can spend a minute going into what that place is, like, underneath the surface, because it sounds like a lot happens. And it happens pretty quick. For most people, it quickly shifts from I’m hurt to like, I’m shut off like, I’m not, no, we’re not going to do this anymore. Okay, so I just finished mapping out their cycle with them, to help them get a sense of when things are disconnected. What do each of them feel, then what do each of them do in response to that feeling? And so he feels like he’s not enough. He feels like he’s in pain. So he goes off and turns away from her and even though it does a good thing, him turning away from her still triggered Her own feeling of not being enough. And when she feels like she’s not enough, she then shuts down and turns away from him, which then creates even more distance between them emotionally, which is painful for him because he wants to feel connected. And so each of them just pull away and do their own thing. So now what I want to do is spend some time with him and unpack with him what it feels like in those moments to feel that pain. And then I want to have him share that with her instead of turning away from her like he does in the cycle. If we can spend a minute going into what that place is, like, underneath the surface, because it sounds like a lot happens.
I mean, I mean, the the, the feeling that kind of comes to mind is not anger, sadness. Definitely sadness. I think part of it. I think I just closed myself off. So that because I’m afraid that if we try, if I keep trying, I’ll just get more and more disappointed with the result maybe
says sad place for you to feel like it’s not working, doing something wrong. It’s inadequacy that’s there. I mean, it sounds like it’s painful in that place for you.
Yeah. Sometimes not always. But it can be like, I think I try and just shut those feelings off with the logic side of my brain that just says it’s fine. It’ll happen again, sometime. Sure.
But underneath, underneath or before you shut it off. I think it does impact you though. It is painful. It sounds like to not feel like you’re enough. Or if you’re doing something wrong. It’s very difficult place to be. Yeah. What would it be like for you to share that with her? In those moments that comes up?
I think it would just be hard to recognize those feelings. Because I’m I, like you said, the moment that I feel that is probably just so quick that I just over override it with that’s fine. Sure. Because I’m a very passive person that just says, Go with the flow. Sure. And so if I if I do feel those feelings of hurt and sadness, it’s only just a brief moment before I just write it off with logic, maybe.
This is such a common strategy that people use, especially in addiction, whether it’s to manage the pain they themselves feel, or whether it’s their partner’s pain, they go to a place of logic, not because they don’t care about their partner’s pain, they just don’t know how to stay with it very well. It’s uncomfortable, so they move away from it, which inadvertently activates the cycle. Because when they turn away emotionally, their partner feels even more alone logic. So we can start to develop some muscle memory. So we can more easily do this when he’s on his own outside of session when that pain comes up again. I wonder if I could ask you to share that with her right now. Because I understand what you’re saying is like in the moment, it’s tough to even recognize this what you feel because it goes so quick to Okay, no big deal. It’s fine. You don’t dwell on that place. Though it exists. You try to move away from that feeling, which is a part of what this rich is this retreat, right? I feel bad. I’m going to retreat and do something that feels comfortable. Read scriptures, pray, do my recovery work. And so I wonder if I could ask you to share the feeling of sadness that comes up for you when it does feel like you’re inadequate. And like you might be doing something wrong. Just help her understand how hard that is for you. To help her with that.
I think the hesitancy there is if I share any ounce of this is how you really made me feel it will make her spin more. Like if it say she doesn’t want to be intimate and I’m just if I the fear of if I tell her that, you know, it really did make me feel sad that you didn’t want to be intimate or it made me feel sad, or inadequate or like I’m not enough. If I were to say those kinds of things to her, it would make her internalize that more and just make her feel even more like worse than she does, ma’am.
Which makes sense.
I think part of what is helpful to keep in mind is that it’s not that she’s making you feel inadequate. It’s like that’s the message that you get somehow that when she her body is not responding, it comes in for you as like, maybe I’m not enough. What if she doesn’t want me in this way? Or what if I’m inadequate, and the pain is around that perception is unique.
And
there’s a difference between that, versus You did this to me, which I could see how that would feel worse. But I guess, just to kind of clarify even more, just that piece that was so important, I think to share is just how bad it does feel. When it feels like you might not be enough for her. Because you want to measure up, of course, you want to be enough, you want to be wanted by her. And if you get the message, or if this kind of cycle comes up, and you get the opposite message, just that’s what’s so hard, because you do value her, you do value that connection with her. So I wonder if that’s the piece, maybe you can share just when it does feel like you might not measure up or you might not be enough or wanted, how it really does impact you.
Because getting over that perception of if I tell her anything, she’ll take it the wrong way.
And I want to, I want to help with that. So because again, I can see how much you really don’t want to hurt her. Because you do care about her. And sets apart again, where I want to see if I can help support her as she hears it differently than how she might take.
So share that now, if you could. This is a whole new ballgame.
It’s so tricky for people to share when they’re not used to doing it, which is why I think doing work together doing couples work is so crucial. Because it’s the fastest way you can learn how to do that. And the thing that I’m trying to be very clear about is that I’m not having him share how much it hurts when she doesn’t want to be intimate. It’s not about that. them getting stuck when they’re trying to be intimate, or whether they’re trying to parent or they disagree about something or whatever else. That’s not the issue. It’s how we internalize those things. And so for him, when he gets emotionally disconnected by her seeming lack of willingness to be intimate with him, he goes to the spot of not feeling like he’s enough. And then he pulls away from her. That’s the issue. So I want him to focus on sharing with her what it’s like for him to feel like he isn’t enough how painful that is for him how much he longs to feel like he is enough. And that’s a totally separate issue than intimacy. But it’s the emotion that gets sparked up for him when he has a difficult time with intimacy.
So like, when just thinking back to that instance. So when when I saw that you didn’t want to be intimate. I perceived that you were not wanting intimacy. Thinking that I did feel a little bit of disappointment and rejection. But also feelings of what more can I do to help you in the feelings that I’m not doing enough? giving you what you need?
Which is very hard for you, right? Because you’ve been working recovery very well. And to feel like you might not be giving her something that she needs in order to feel safe enough to want to like that. That’s must be very difficult. Yeah. So then I’m curious when you do hear him share the fears that it brings up inside of him like what if I’m not doing enough? What if I’m trying and she still doesn’t feel safe? Or what if she doesn’t want me and is curious what does it feel like for you to hear him say how much that impacts him because he wants so much to feel close to you and to feel connected with you? what that’s like there.
I think initially I want to do anything I can to help him not feel that way. Like realizing. Oh, when this happened That’s how you really feel. Because I think so much of it is just what I see of him. Yes, so so I feel like I’m, it’s a little easier for me to put myself in his shoes. I feel like I tried, try harder to do that. But hearing, hearing that hear that hearing my sadness, and like, I’m mean, I feel like this is me not being enough, kind of helps me put myself in his shoes a little more. I feel a little differently about the whole situation, it’s not as frustrating. Because it’s not. I don’t want to say it’s not about me. But it helps me, it helps me kind of get out of myself. Because I’m, I’m focusing on Well, I can’t do I can’t be intimate with you right now I can’t do this. And this is maybe why and kind of that fresh, frustrating, it takes a little more frustration off of me. And more. Oh, quit focusing on myself. Think of how this really is impacting him.
So when you hear, just want to make sure I’m on the same page with you. So when you hear him share just how much it does hurt to feel like he might be falling short and not doing enough. And giving you what you need in order for you to be able to want to be intimate or have your body respond or have their have there be enough safety for you. Or for him to feel just inadequate. If you don’t want to be intimate. When you hear him share it in this way. It feels less personal for you like you’re less hard on yourself because it doesn’t feel like it’s about you. Right?
Yeah, it helps me kind of get out of maybe I don’t know if I’m on the defensive, but it helps me kind of get out of myself and realize this is not just almost intimacy, sometimes I feel like we get caught up in our bodies and how it feels and that kind of thing. And my body’s broken. You know, I focus a lot on like, What’s wrong with me? But hearing that, I feel like it’s more of Okay, let’s connect on a different, a different level. If I can’t connect with intimacy, I want to help you feel better, because I’m realizing that you’re feeling so down. Versus like, Oh, we can’t be in intimate K. He’s out. Feeling like intimacy would be the only option.
Yes. But
I don’t know, just having to say that made me like, immediately, I was just Whoa. I feel it’s not as much about me. I don’t, I’m not focusing on the hurt. Yeah, cuz I wouldn’t have felt during that time, or
if he hadn’t just retreated. Yeah. Sharing how you feel underneath the surface changes everything. It totally clarifies any negative messages we usually internalize, which then triggers us. And then we respond in a way that protects ourselves, such as shutting down, getting angry, lashing out, which then further disconnects us from our spouse, when she heard him share in a vulnerable way, she was naturally able to soften, I could see him in a different way altogether, which then changes the dynamic of the entire situation. So I want to step back with them right now and recap for them what they just did. So they can make sense of how this happened. So they can do this on their own when they’re outside of session. And so, so if we take a step back and look at what you guys are doing, and this is so crucial, because you’re sharing in a different way, how it feels for you to feel disconnected. Not enough. What if you’re not doing enough for her? All your work that you’ve been doing? What if that’s not enough, and you’re sharing just how hard that is for you, because you want to be there for her in this way, and create safety and be somebody she can lean on. So when you share that with her that that’s what that’s what fear comes up. When this incident happened. You’re able to hear this totally differently. And it’s it instead of it being about you like him rejecting you now by retreating and like, fine, you’re on your own kind of thing. You hear him differently is like, Oh, it’s this is about him. And, like almost there’s a softening for you. It seems like yeah,
I almost felt like sailing. I’m like, you’re doing great with your recovery. Like, thank you so much for working so hard like this has not you know, me not being able to do this right now does not mean that you aren’t working hard. Yeah, I
almost want to tell them.
Like, Oh, sorry. I’m just
I am so proud of all that you
have done, and how hard you’ve worked and how you have treated me so well to the point where I can work on my recovery and I do want to be close to you in that way. So I don’t, anytime that I’m not intimate, I don’t want you to feel like it’s because you’re not enough. Because your work with this is something I’ve never never heard any ladies talking about how their husbands have been in the way that you have been with me. So I, I just don’t want you to ever think that because my body or because of something going on with me is making it so that you feel like you’re not enough. Because you very much are
what we need when we get afraid, sad, feel insecure or get disconnected, what we need is to get comfort, and reassurance and support from our spouse or a partner. This is the exact process by which we can get those needs met, help the couple to see their cycle that disconnects them share in a vulnerable way how they feel, and then to ask directly for that comfort or reassurance that they need. Now, normally, I’ll prompt the client to ask for that in the moment. But in this case, I didn’t have to because she naturally did it on her own. So when we develop the skill to be able to share and ask for needs to be met, are then able to create and recreate moments of closeness over and over again. And this is how our relationships stay strong. I think it is very like I think it’s such a such a cool thing for you to be able to reassure and say like you’re doing so well I see what you’re doing. It means a lot to me. I know you’re working hard. And if I my body’s not responding in these, like these moments, it is not a reflection of you not doing enough. And so a part of you when you hear that is like this feels good. Like almost it affirms Okay, she does see my work, or maybe you can speak Yeah, but one of that what what is it like?
It’s just it’s an affirmation, affirmation that I feel a difference in myself. So when I hear someone else kind of praise me, it’s like, okay, I am on the right track. Sure.
especially coming from her right right person that you want so much to feel like trusts you and believes in you and can rely on you to hear that those things are happening because of what you’re doing. Like it’s got to feel really good.
Yeah. And I mean, as far as, you know, when she shares it in that manner, it’s like, it’s fine. We don’t we can’t be intimate because your body’s not feeling it. It’s okay. Yes. It’s, it’s fine. Like, I get that you’re pregnant. Like I understand that your body doesn’t fill it always
right. And it’s into here. Because what’s so important, right, what’s happening right now again, as we kind of look at it stepping back. When you share the fear of well, when your body isn’t responding, it comes in for you, as I’m afraid that I might not be doing enough. I’m afraid that what what if she doesn’t even want me in this way? I feel inadequate, if you’ve rejected, all of which are very natural things to feel, right. But as you take a risk to be vulnerable and share those with her, you’re able to step in and reassure and clarify. No, that’s not at all what’s happening. I’m really proud of the work that you’re doing. I appreciate I acknowledge this, I’m feeling like this, this feels good for me when you’re doing your work. When I feel with my body’s not responding, it has nothing to do with you or your work. And when you hear that it’s like reassuring. Okay, like it’s intimacy. It’s not about in that moment, if you were to redo that moment, it was like, Okay, I wouldn’t have needed to pursue intimacy, because I got the reassurance that I needed that I’m okay, like, I’m okay, I’m doing good work. I got the reassurance and support that I needed to offset the fear. And that’s what’s so important, I think, in the work that couples do, and what you’re doing right now, is that these fears are natural, we can’t get away from them. But when they’re shared, it creates space to get comfort and reassurance, which helps to kind of balance us again, because we as people. we’re wired for connection. we’re wired, to rely on somebody else to lean on somebody else to get emotional support. And you doing what you just do right now is just that you’re reaching, you’re getting emotional support, you’re able to respond and give that and then now it’s like, it’s okay. We don’t have to be intimate, like I feel okay, or that you’ve bonded in a different way.
I see it being like, this is the other avenue. Like I feel like we were so blocked off because we’re like, we’re sharing our feelings. Like I’m telling him I’m frustrated. You know, he’s telling me like, we’re sharing, you know, I thought that we’re sharing things, but getting down to the This is the this is Yeah, this is the fear that I’m doing. And I think getting, I don’t know, phrases, phrasing it correctly, or just saying it in a way that is you didn’t make me feel this way. This is just how I’m feeling. And I think that would take so much off of each other feeling like we’re hurting each other. It’s not, this is not like you’re doing this to me, right? This is this how my body’s handling the situation. And this is how I’m feeling. But I just had the thought of that’d be really nice to end, an attempt to be intimate feeling like I do right now, just like we could just go to bed, hold each other and be fine and feel connected. But I’ve been like, every time that doesn’t work, I’ve never thought that was possible. We’ve never, I’ve never been able to just share at this level, I guess I guess it’s like a whole nother level that I didn’t realize you could share, to connect in a different way.
I love watching couples come together like this. It’s such a cool thing. And I hope that as you’ve listened, you’ve been able to see as well that it’s not magic or luck, that some couples are able to work through difficult situations successfully. If you just follow the process, you get the result. And vulnerability is the key. And as a therapist, I’m empowered by the research that’s been done and the knowledge that we’re wired for connection. And once I learned how to help couples connect on an emotional level, everything changed for me in terms of my ability to help couples create these moments of closeness with each other. Thanks for coming behind the scenes with me, I hope this was helpful. Now relationships can be very difficult, but don’t give up. There’s a process, there’s hope. And you can develop the skill to be able to connect with your spouse or partner as well. Okay, that’s the end of the recording. I hope that was valuable for you. I love being able to work with clients and see the progress that they make in such a short amount of time. And as you heard from zero couples work to 30 minutes later, she feels like she’s and they both feel like they’re in a completely different place. And so, like I mentioned at the end of the recording, don’t give up there’s hope. If you feel like you want some additional help and tools and resources and guidance, I would love to support you in any way that I can. Again, you can you can contact me there is information on my website, a couples healing.org. And there’s a free course for couples who are interested in getting some more tools and information there. But if you just want some direct help, you can reach me there on that website. I’d love to support you and I know that this healing process is possible. And so I hope that this has been valuable for you to hear today, their experience and get some tools so you can apply that in your own life. Okay, thank you guys. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.
