hey everyone welcome back to another episode of the couples healing podcast i’m so excited for today’s episode and i was kind of giddy thinking about what i wanted to share with you i know that sounds like a weird thing to say but i did a three day communication workshop for a group of people last year and one of the things that i did was i did a little bit of an undercover job where i recorded a conversation between my wife and i and she didn’t know that i was doing this and i told her about it afterwards and she kind of laughed and she doesn’t care but the reason why i did this is because my wife hates talking about how she feels and you know that’s kind of funny thinking about her being married to a therapist and i obviously i feel very comfortable talking about that and i’m aware of how i feel and so anytime i have this discussion with her i it’s it’s this is not something that’s natural for her and it’s not comfortable so i recorded this little snippet which i want to play for you guys i want to i want to just put this on here i took it out of the workshop and put it on putting out here on the podcast i’m doing this for a couple of reasons number one i think most people are in a relationship well many i don’t know if i say most many people are in a relationship with somebody who doesn’t like talking about how they feel for a couple of reasons number one it’s uncomfortable being vulnerable is difficult or number two they don’t actually know how they feel or both which is my wife she doesn’t like talking about it she doesn’t really pay attention to how she feels and so the reason why i wanted to share this with you is because this conversation i recorded it for this group of people to model for them just to kind of demonstrate because it’s much easier to see it to see something and have a tangible example of how do you initiate conversations with somebody who doesn’t like talking about how they feel and so i did this because i wanted you guys to have an example of this and you can use some of the language or the approach however it works for you i wanted you to have something that you can kind of look at as an example and i’m not saying that i did this perfectly i’m just saying this is one of the options or that this is the only way right there’s this is one of many options this is relevant for two reasons number one emotional connection is the foundation of feeling safe having trust feeling loved being close to your partner having fulfilling relationship emotional connection is crucial for that and having these discussions is so important because that helps to build this emotional bond so i want you guys to know how to do this even if you’re in relationships with somebody who doesn’t like to do it you know if it’s hard for them my wife and i feel very close and it’s because we can have these conversations even if she’s not so comfortable with them you can do it in a way that minimizes that they can help increase her level of comfort so that’s number one it’s the basis of a connected relationship is having these kinds of conversations number two when men in particular who are struggling with addiction sometimes they’re either not aware of how they feel or it’s hard for them to talk about how they feel if they are aware of it which leaves their wife feeling disconnected and alone and also him not being able to share or opening up about how he feels can contribute to him avoiding and escaping his pain and going back to the addiction again like we talked about in a few episodes ago addiction is just a way to cope and so oftentimes what men are coping from is their emotional overwhelm it’s the fear it’s the failure or the inadequacy the sadness the loneliness and so step number one is to become aware of how we feel and to be able to start to talk about it and open up and have the relationship with their safety enough for both people to share now the step number one to be able to do that is to first understand what’s going on with our partner right there’s so much more compassion we can extend to our partner if we understand why they might not be opening up in the first place because it’s so easy for us to take it personally so when people say well my husband won’t open up that must mean he doesn’t care about me i feel like i’m on my own i feel like he doesn’t love me right we have these ways of describing or making sense out of why our partner does or doesn’t do something so step number one is to truly understand what’s going on and why that’s the case what are some what what are contribute what’s contributing to this kind of a dynamic what are the blocks because once you understand those blocks it will then reveal what are the next steps and so i hope that you enjoy this i was super excited to share this because during the recording you’re going to hear me cracking up just because of how she’s responding to all this stuff and i think it’s going to be very very much so help you guys to know how to have these conversations and also to have hope that it’s perfectly okay if your partner doesn’t like talking about how they feel it doesn’t feel natural for them because there’s still a way to do it that helps them to feel to minimize the discomfort and to still truly connect with them if you just know how to do it but again the first step is to simply Understand what is making this difficult, what are the blocks there, because that will then reveal the path forward. So I’m going to skip the intro, I want to just jump right in and show you this episode. And have you listen to this little snippet here of the workshop. And, and again, so you can get some ideas and tools to be able to approach this in your own situations.
And just as a little bit of context, she was in our room laying down messing with something on her phone. And I went in there and I did like some, I don’t know, some, like small talk about whatever it was like, What was she looking on a phone or what was going on during the day, I didn’t jump directly into the conversation, I cut all the small talk out just so we can get straight to the point. And so that was the context. So let’s go ahead and listen to this right now.
So I know we mentioned it before, this is separate thing altogether. But we talked about what you’re talking about when we talk like communicating. He said it’s hard to talk about feelings. I want to understand that a little more.
I don’t what do you mean, I don’t like talking about feelings? No, no.
No, I just want to understand more of why we don’t have to solve anything. But I just wondered, because
it’s uncomfortable. That’s why idiot died.
I know it is. But that’s what I want to understand is what is uncomfortable. All of it.
You don’t like it? I don’t know what you friggin want me to say I don’t mind talking about feelings. I don’t like.
Okay, so it’s vulnerable, then? Yeah, I
don’t freakin like that. That’s a horrible thing.
Because we can. We can talk about anything, really. But I know if it’s feelings. That’s where it’s hard. It’s vulnerable.
Yeah.
Should I put turkey in here? And I got turkey at Target.
Can you take that phrase that though? Yeah, actually, that’s a good phrase.
Okay, there’s a couple of things that I want to note here. So number one, you hear me laughing basically, throughout the whole thing. And the reason why I did that is not because I can’t control my laughter. It’s because I know my wife. And I know that I need to keep it light when I talk about these kinds of things. And so it’s so important that you know, your spouse and what works and what doesn’t work. Because then you can just be flexible and adapt to whatever they might need, if you want to have these kinds of conversations. So I’m laughing through the whole thing. Secondly, you hear her kind of saying, Oh, I bought turkey at Target or whatever. She’s on her phone when we’re talking about this stuff. And I know she’s paying attention to me, we’re having a conversation, but I’m not making her. I don’t know, again, I know her. And I know that this is that’s a way for her to kind of manage some of the discomfort. So I don’t feel bad. I don’t take it personal. I don’t think like Oh, you’re not paying attention to me. Now, some conversations are worth of course, putting your phone down. But for this, my intention wasn’t to solve anything. My intention was just to ask about what makes it so uncomfortable for her. So the second thing that I want to know is I’m not, I don’t know if you can, maybe you can’t tell really. But just the way that I’m approaching this is I’m not making her answer any questions. By using force or pressure, I’m just kind of curiously approaching in as soft or as gentle as a way as I can. So there’s not like, Yeah, I know. I get it. You’re but but what is it specifically? Why are you feeling like that? It’s very light. It’s Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And then I give a little space, I’m not like, answer ask question ask answer. Ask answer. It’s not like that. It’s, there’s like a flow to it, or there’s no pressure. Because I know that’s so important for her. And so finally, it took a few questions. But finally it came from again, a higher up she’s I said, Why? What’s so what what makes it difficult to talk about feelings? She says it’s uncomfortable. Okay, I get that. But like what I’m, in my mind, I’m like, Well, what is it that’s so uncomfortable. And I have to just be, again, go with the flow when I asked her, and eventually it comes out. She doesn’t like being vulnerable. And she’s going to go into detail about a little bit more detail as to what about vulnerability is uncomfortable. And you’re going to hear that part next. But I just wanted to kind of make a note, I know what she needs, she needs me to keep it light. So I did that by laughing. There’s not a lot of pressure, all of this so I can understand where she’s coming from a bit more than I otherwise would. And I know all this stuff, but again, I wanted to kind of model this for you as to how to ask this question. But knowing her, this is the way that I need to approach it. So it is with you. I would encourage you as you try to figure out or learn more about your spouse or what you already know about them or your partner. Use those things to the benefit of the conversation. You can apply those as you guys speak together.
That helps me know then a little more. You don’t like being vulnerable.
Are you joking? Are you? Not of revelation just now? You’re an effing idiot. All right, Id All right,
one more question then.
Awesome.
What is it about being vulnerable? Don’t like,
I just feel stupid.
I feel stupid. Yeah, I
just feel like a frickin I feel like an idiot you do I feel stupid and embarrassed. And like an idiot. And I don’t like it. You do? I’ll do whatever it takes to not feel like
I guess I don’t understand, like, what is it about opening up makes you feel stupid.
It just made me feel stupid. I don’t like it. Because then I’m giving somebody power to like, judge my feelings and reactions. And I’m not giving that up. By
like, when you talk about it, I don’t feel like and judge your feelings. I hope it doesn’t come off like that.
We finally get to the core of why she doesn’t like talking about how she feels, which is she doesn’t want to be judged for how she feels about anything. And again, because I know we’ve had this discussion many times. So this isn’t brand new information. None of this is. For me, when I hear this, I wanted to explain to you that this is an old thing. Like for her when she was young, her sister used to make fun of her anytime she got emotional. Anytime she felt something if she felt sad, if she started to cry, her sister would actually make fun of her. So she developed this thing around, if I open up, if I show somebody what my feelings are, they’re gonna judge me, they’re gonna make fun of me. Essentially, she’s saying it’s not safe. So this is, again, such valuable information. Because knowing this, I can adjust my approach, I can make extra care, I can take extra care, I can make special efforts to create safety, so that we can have these conversations so she can learn that it actually is okay for her to open up. And so just in transparency, I’ve made plenty of mistakes. And I’ve made again, I didn’t there. When we first got married, I didn’t know about how to do all this stuff, and the things that I’m going to be sharing with you today. Or over the next few days. I didn’t know how to do this all. And so I made so many mistakes that unintentionally reinforce this idea that it’s not safe for her to open up. And so this is so important for us to know when we’re having conversations with a partner or trying to figure out what makes it difficult to communicate, where do we get stuck? What gets lost? How do you interpret things, it’s so important that we know what those things are. So we can take special care and give it extra special attention to make sure that we’re doing the things that our partner needs. And so for her, she’s essentially telling me that she needs safety in order to have these conversations more comfortably.
I like when you talk about it, and I’m like and judge your feelings. I hope it doesn’t come off like that.
Now you’re just telling me that I’m wrong.
About that
happen? Are you?
Are you joking?
That’s why every time we get into something I just roll over. I’m just like, okay, yeah, you’re right. Okay. Because anytime I have something to say you’re going to come back and tell me why I’m wrong. So, okay.
Got it.
I’ve gotten a lot better
bones.
Okay, I’m glad you feel that way. You don’t think so? No.
I can definitely work on that.
Oh, so she calls me on the carpet. And I know exactly what she’s referring to. And just so all of you are caught up to speed. We’ve had conversations in the past, especially in the first few years of marriage, where she’d share how she feels. And then she might say something like I’m trying to improve, or I’m trying to do what you asked me to do or be more affectionate or more open. And then I would come back and say something like, well, over the past few weeks, you haven’t been doing those things. And then I’d explain why I felt the way that I did. But the energy in the conversation wasn’t warm. It wasn’t inviting. There wasn’t this curiosity. It wasn’t a dialogue. It was more of an accusatory blaming, I’m unhappy with you kind of feel. And so of course, it didn’t work. And she felt discouraged. And then she’d finally say what she did in the recording here. Okay, whatever, you’re right, fine. Okay, that’s fine. And then she would kind of shut down, and then the conversation would end. And that would completely demote D motivate her. And I totally understand why it would and as I reflect on, I’m like, Well, of course, like I would feel the same way. So this is All 100% true, and I can totally own that. And when she said that I hadn’t made any progress in that area, I knew for the purpose of this recording, I did not want to follow that thread, I didn’t want to go into a side discussion and open up a whole nother thing, that wasn’t the point of this conversation. And if I did have time, if we weren’t, if I wasn’t recording this, then maybe I would have gone into it. And I would have shared it in a very inviting way, they wouldn’t have been combative at all, like I said, it would have been very, this is, you know, Okay, thanks for letting me know where you’re coming from. This is kind of where I feel like I’m coming from. But for this conversation, instead, all I did was I said, simply, okay, I can definitely work on that. So it’s good feedback. And I really can work on that, because I know that marriage takes work, and I’m okay with that. I know that it does, weeds grow automatically. And it’s just like in any other area of life, if you don’t focus energy on something, then you don’t get the result that you want. So if I don’t exercise my muscles, I’m going to start to lose them. It’s the same in marriage the same way. And the key skill that I want to share with you is, is I want to teach you how to have constructive conversations, and give you the tools to communicate effectively, so that you can understand where each you and your partner are coming from. So you actually can connect together, and then you can just adjust as necessary. And so for me when I heard her say that I haven’t improved, even though I know that I have if she feels like I need to keep working on it, then I’m happy to do it. Because it’s not really what i think it’s it’s not how good I think I’m doing. It’s how does she feel about what I’m doing? Because that’s what’s most important, I want to have a strong relationship with her. I want her to feel safe. So getting feedback, like this is a very good thing. And like I mentioned, I could have shared with her some examples of things. And then she would say, I would guess that she would say like, Well, actually, yeah, that is true. I do remember you doing that. And so she, I would guess that she would agree. Yeah, like that’s true, you are doing better. But if she feels like things aren’t quite as safe as she’d like them to be, then that’s perfectly okay. And I’m not gonna force her or pressure her to feel a certain way, I’ll simply just use the feedback, and pay attention to those moments when I can reinforce and create an even deeper sense of safety. One more thing that I want to mention is that we can actually have this conversation because we feel connected together emotionally. emotional connection is such a key part of a relationship. And we’re going to be talking more about that on day number three. But having a connection where there is a sense of love and closeness, that’s what’s at the foundation of good communication. And we’ve worked really hard on that. So we can have these kinds of conversations that you’re listening to right now. We can have them together and it can be constructive. And that in and of itself is an indicator that there is safety in the relationship that we’re in a good place. And of course, there’s always different things that we can improve on, improve on in marriage. But we can talk about hard things without them spiraling into a massive fight. Because of that foundation of connection that we have. That’s so fundamental, such an important piece to the success and happiness of a relationship. And again, we’re going to talk more about that on episode number three of the workshop. Okay, so the conversation goes on for the next few minutes. And this is also something that’s I really want people to hear because it helps people who are more open with their feelings, like in my position, right, I’m more open about talking about these kinds of things. So for those of you who are listening who feel the same way, you’re going to get a better understanding of your partner who might not be as open. And it will help those who are more maybe closed off emotionally. It’ll help them to resonate with the fact that lots of people feel like this. And we can work with that. Wherever you guys are in your relationship. All you need is the tools to know how to approach these kinds of situations. And then you can have excellent conversations. Even if in the beginning, they might not feel so natural or as comfortable to you
know what’s going on in their
head. I don’t even think about my own feelings. Now, like I never like this really emotionally intelligent person. I just don’t say it. Right.
Okay, just not thinking about it. No, you’re doing your day.
100% do you go around thinking about how you feel?
I’m aware of it. If I feel stressed, I think about what might be causing it or if I feel a certain way or if I feel bothered.
Yeah, I think about that. You try to like work through it in your mind. See, I just rage bullshit.
No, I think about what caused it. Why do I feel that way? And is there anything that can be done to resolve if it’s an issue? Okay,
how do we resolve No,
literally the only thing that I think, man, what caused this? There’s only one thing in my life. Dreams. I wake up and I do I’m like, oh my gosh. Why did I have that dream? I frickin wash enough. See, that’s
what I do is
always there’s always I can almost always jump back to my dream to something that happened.
Yeah. See, that’s what I do. But with everything else,
yeah, that was way too much effort.
But you got some problems. Yeah.
SRA, gone.
I think you’ve gotten better. That’s good.
still feels uncomfortable. mulumba It’s horrible.
The worst thing that you make me do. Easily, easily, easily. When you say let’s talk about feelings.
Well, I never say let’s talk about feelings. I asked, you know, I asked you. What’s, what’s going on? going on? I buddy in there?
I just
I probably vocalize it. But if I don’t, where
you say it? What’s going on? Ah, the sound of what goes on inside? That.
Was that, please.
I think you’ve gotten better. I think we have good talks, when we do try to figure something out.
See, the thing is that you have to get me in the right mood.
Yes,
I have to be. If I’m not willing, might as well give up because that ain’t happening. Not to the level that you want it to. See, like, right now, you caught me in a mood where I’m willing to explain it.
Yeah.
That’s good.
That’s good. I’m
glad you feel that way.
So there you have it. I hope that was helpful to listen to that. I’m just, I mean, I was cracking up and I was hearing her explain all this, it’s just so different than my own experience of it. And I know that we grew up totally differently. And we have our own ways of seeing the world. And the good news is that when you know how to connect with your partner, when you know how to emotionally be on the same page, when you know how to talk through things that are bothering you, you don’t actually have to be with the person who’s the exact same as you. In order for us to have a successful relationship, I don’t need her to be like me. And she doesn’t need me to be like her. In order to have a successful relationship, all you need to know is how to communicate in a way that resolves challenges, and how to communicate with your partner in a way that gets you emotionally connected with each other. And the good news is that it doesn’t have to take six hours of a deep conversation to connect together, you can have a really good conversation and feel close to one another. And it doesn’t have to take a whole lot of time. If you know how to do it, it’s the foundation is being able to emotionally connect with one another. And when you can do that. And you can do it with a with a person who doesn’t love talking about emotions. Because if you’re in a relationship with somebody who’s like that, that’s likely what they’re feeling and what they’re thinking. So it’s okay, if I don’t want in the past, it might have discouraged you to think like, my partner won’t open up and talk about anything. Again, there’s a way to do it. And you can do it in a way. Like she said, You catch her at the good time. Of course, there’s good and bad times for everybody. But you get to know your partner a little bit more, you know, once you learn the approach and how to do it, you can actually have really, really meaningful conversations, even if that’s not the other person’s default. So I hope if nothing else, after you were able to listen to that whole process. Number one, know that it’s possible for you to have a such a good relationship, even if your partner is different than you. Number two, getting feedback is so helpful. If you want to know your partner, you got to know what makes them tick. What bothers them what words work, what phrases work, what phrases don’t work, the more you understand about your partner, then you can use that in your process of communicating with one another, to then figure out how do we move forward. So the key to communication, one of the keys is being able to understand who your partner is. And then you can work with that person and be able to have an influence on the relationship in a very positive way, regardless of what kind of person they are. So again, I hope that you can you can appreciate that my wife and I are very different from one another yet we have such a strong relationship, because we’re connected and we know how to approach things together.
Okay, so that’s the end of the little segment there. I hope that that was helpful to hear. So you can start to have this conversation with your partner and understand what might get in the way so you can understand where they’re coming from, which again allows you to take it less personally and you can have more understanding and compassion. So you can work together to figure out how to move forward past this block. truly have the kind of relationship that you want. So again, hope this was helpful, I would encourage you to have this conversation with your partner over the next week, pick a time and just very gently See if you can broach this subject. You can use any of the of the words or the phrases or any any of the approach that you felt like resonated with you and how I approached my wife, feel free to steal that and, and use it in your own relationship. And I’d love to hear how this goes for you guys. So if this was helpful, I would love it. If you wouldn’t mind leaving me some feedback, you can do a rating and a review. That helps me tremendously because I want to get this information out to more people. And so I’d love to get some feedback from you guys. And again, I hope that this has been helpful for you. And good luck having this conversation with your partner this week.
Wait before you go,
I’m offering free access for my podcast listeners to a course I created. So make sure you go to couples healing.org so you can get some tools to start the healing process individually and in your relationship. Or if you want even more support and you’d like to work with me directly. You can contact me with the info that’s on that website as well. I’m excited for you to make progress on your journey.
